Interview with BRUIT ≤ Guitarist Théophile Antolinos

If you've ever listened to French post-music, you probably know BRUIT ≤. They have been causing riots with their impressive, dark sounds and clearly stand out on the European scene. I've had the privilege of seeing them live a few times and have always been thrilled. Now I had the opportunity for an interview with guitarist Théophile Antolinos, and of course, I took it.

Most recently, BRUIT ≤ attracted attention with their manifesto against the music streaming service Spotify. With "The Boycott Manifesto", they express, among other things, their resentment against the exploitation of artists by the portal and its operator—as well as the arbitrariness of the algorithms, to which everything is at the mercy of today. The topic offers plenty to talk about and, of course, affects us all somewhere. That's why I wanted to look into this point with all its details.

Anne: Hi Théo! Thanks for taking the time for this conversation! It is an honour to get to know you finally! How are you doing today?

Théophile: Hi! I'm doing great. Glad to chat with you!

Anne: You just released your latest single, "The Boycott Manifesto". It's meant to be a brutal critique of Spotify and all those algorithms separating the music scene from fans and pushing people toward only listening to the music the machine suggests. This environment makes it even harder for alternative artists to get their music out there and sell their records. I love the statement, and I think the release came just at the right moment. So, congrats on that! Are you happy with the outcome of your work? How is the response so far?

"We needed to release 'The Boycott Manifesto'!"

Théophile: Thank you! We really needed to release this track. With all the messages from people asking us why they can't find us on the platforms, it bothered us to make this choice, and it's always good to clear things up. But instead, we're seeing more of a debate between people, and it's opened up more discussion on the subject in the small sphere of people listening to our music.

As far as the response from the public is concerned, it's pretty strange. Of course, people support our choice, but we also felt some discomfort around this track. It may be hard for people who subscribe to one or more major streaming platforms to appreciate this piece and its bias. I think people unintentionally feel a bit targeted by this song as a judgment on their choice to consume music. And to understand each other and move forward in this world that is walking on its head, we must look at each other as will-less followers walking behind a greedy machine.

We all know that nothing in the way we consume music (and almost everything else) is a matter of personal choice any more. It's all about the monopoly today. If you cut yourself off from streaming platforms, Netflix, and social networks culturally and socially, it's almost like a social suicide. We know that, and with this title, we aimed at the parasites who force us to feed their monopoly—not at people like us who suffer from this monopoly. It's hard for a band to cut itself off from the platforms. It's hard for someone who loves music not to subscribe to the media. We know that, and some band members listen to music on different big streaming platforms.

"This song is for everyone who subscribes to Spotify out of compulsion and would like a fairer model!"

You know, if I watch a documentary tomorrow about the damage fossil fuels cause, I share it with people around me, but I drive a diesel and feel out of step with my beliefs and lifestyle. It's never pleasant to step back from one's way of life when one realises it's screwed up. Criticising your lifestyle is to criticise yourself. It calls into question the meaning of your short time on this earth. But this should only provoke rage in us, not embarrassment and shame. This song is for everyone who subscribes to Spotify out of compulsion and would like a fairer model!

Anne: I thought some people might find it provocative that "The Boycott Manifesto" is the first-ever BRUIT ≤ song you released on streaming platforms like Spotify. But I also think you're making a good point, telling the truth. I like your comparison with the environmental topic, and I think it's the same with veganism—things that make people think about their behaviour tend to provoke them. But it also leads to change in the long run, so it's a good thing! So, how did you come up with this idea? I think it's pretty brilliant, by the way!

"Criticising your lifestyle is and unpleasant form of critique"

Théophile: Thanks. I don't think we really had a choice. It was the only way to be heard on this issue. Occasionally, the best way to turn a weakness into an asset is to accept it. So, we had to explain our choice rather than undergo it and answer dozens of messages asking us when we would put our songs online on the platforms. And so, when we thought about this idea of a parasite, we quickly understood that this track wouldn't make sense only on Bandcamp. Especially if someone looks for our music on Spotify today, he has all the answers to his questions in this track.

Anne: The rest of your catalogue can only be bought on vinyl or via Bandcamp. And your fans love this fact a lot. I think most of us can pretty much agree with your decision to keep your music away from Spotify & Co. and respect you for that. Do you think you would've sold more music if you'd joined the platforms with it?

Théophile: I have no idea. In terms of sales, it would be hard to compare, knowing that the big platforms make almost nothing for the artists, but more people would certainly discover us. So, let's say we focus on the quality of the audience rather than the quantity.

Anne: I think you are excellent role models for young artists with your statements and attitude. I mean: it's your music, so you should be the only ones to decide what happens to it. What advice would you give to a newly founded band? How would you tell them to deal with this stuff?

Théophile: I don't know, I'm young, our band is relatively new, and I don't feel legitimate to give this kind of advice. With this project, we're just trying to get through the day-to-day in a situation where we feel stuck. Spotify and stuff, it all started before I held my first guitar in my hands. Our generation is trapped in this, and every year their monopoly is growing, and they're imposing more and more constraints on artists. So, it's probably going to get even more intense. But maybe with our action we are also shedding some light on this shitty situation in which bands have to build themselves today. That would be great.

Anne: How is it possible Spotify boss Daniel Ek is investing in AI weapons? Shouldn't music fans be the owners of the world's biggest "gate to music"? Why is it, do you think, people don't talk about stuff like that? I mean, it's the same with Musk and Twitter.

"Everything seems to be for sale in this system"

Théophile: I think it's pretty obscure how digital (and even physical) music is distributed. And it's normal. I wouldn't know how to explain the ins and outs of the distribution of textiles, food etc. And I agree: It should be the musicians themselves who own the means of distribution. The fact that any social predator can invest in a field that doesn't interest them is symptomatic of a system where everything is for sale.

Anne: You called the song an act of musical vandalism and a no-holds-barred Trojan Horse designed to be a parasite that purposefully directs listeners and new fans away from the platform. I think it is a pretty political form of protest, which, if you look back in history, can lead to success if you do it subtly enough and people enjoy the outcome. Are you working toward a goal like that? Are there other artists following you in that fight?

Théophile: No, actually, as I said, we don't have any visibility in this story. We're going day by day, and we're not thinking about the next thing we could do to piss off the big platforms.

And above all, there's no movement behind it. We need to be more known to initiate it. I know some big artists have been screaming about Spotify, the pay issue and Spotify owner Daniel Ek investing in weaponry. But it's still a very low-profile issue, and to rub their noses in it, many big artists would have to denounce them all at once publicly. Overall, it's always the same political problem, like with Gafam, who doesn't pay taxes here. Our so-called welfare states, which proclaim themselves the light of the world and great defenders of democracy, are still looking the other way when it comes to making the powerful pay. Yet, the Sacem (the copyright protection organisation in our country) has denounced this, and we have a minister of culture.

Today, the ultrarich weigh so much that they can bend the states by snapping their fingers. Ultimately, it's a loss of democracy for us and a loss of legitimacy for our leaders.

Anne: Why do you think people are increasingly into consuming all those "convenience music"? You know, I mean those computer-generated playlists, one single after another, different artists. Although, it all seems the same. Sometimes I feel like an alien, listing to albums and following their stories from the first note to the final accord. I always thought this is what makes music so fascinating. Or am I just a nerd? What is wrong with the world? If you go to a streaming platform, it's all about singles. Are people not into albums any more?

"I love listening to albums from one end to the other"

Théophile: I'm making the same observation. I like to listen to albums from one end to the other to know where the bands come from and what their line-up is, and then mainly to see the release dates of the albums. I can only listen to CDs in my car, which brings me a lot. Listening to an album several times in a row, over several days and in different moods is important for our feelings. At home, I never listen to an album twice in a row. I have too many albums waiting. There are so many new releases!

Today, when you have a musical research process, you feel like an old antique collector in a world that goes too fast. People are not into albums any more, but also less into bands.

I think it's this whole thing: Our current way of life makes the way of consuming music, like in the 90s, obsolete. When you don't have time for anything, an easy-to-identify solo artist, a single, or a mix made for radio that is comfortable from the first listen is perfect. And all those computer-generated playlists avoid all that nerd research work that takes time we don't have any more. Lately, I've been feeling like what I listen to online as if, over the years, it's all losing a bit of consistency. That's because I can listen to anything I want at any time with no limit. It's too much information and dizzying when you realise it.

"Things with meaning don't disappear according to consumer trends"

Our brains need limits, constraints, and repetition to assimilate properly. Maybe also to really think about what we are listening to and stimulate our creativity—so, I bought an old Walkman with some tapes and rechargeable batteries. It probably makes me a bit of a nerd too, but it's given me a new sense of how to listen to music, and it's stupid to say it. Still, I think it's calmed that anxious feeling, like when you've accumulated a lot of shit, you don't know where you stand any more and sorting it all out is good for your brain. But music is made of cycles. Who knows, possibly one day, a new generation will come and want to go and shake their heads in basements in front of walls of amps and spend whole afternoons browsing in independent record shops. Whatever happens, and despite the omnipotence of the industry, I'm sure there will always be a place for this counter-culture because it has a real meaning. Things with meaning don't disappear according to consumer trends.

Anne: That's very well said!

The next question is a bit personal. As a music blogger, I share a lot of music through lists. I create on iTunes, Spotify and YouTube. I share them with my readers, hoping to support artists like you with my posts and make people aware of the more niche types of music I love. And I don't do it without struggling. I really have this inner conflict: Should I use them? Shouldn't I?

On the one hand, the bands suffer from those greedy companies, only getting a few dollars a month for their work. But, on the other hand, people use this platform, and it may be the best way for me to reach them. Do you have any advice for me?

Théophile: No, I don't have any particular advice to give you. Of course, this situation has its disadvantages, but we do what we can, and it's not up to me to judge the way each person does things. But I am confident of one thing: Thanks to initiatives like yours, different niche types of music are alive today.

Anne: Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. I had the same experience when I left Twitter (still working on deleting my content from Facebook, which seems nearly impossible). Thousands of people could at least read your posts or listen to your music because they follow you or find you by accident (it's written on another page if they see it because of the algorithms). If you leave, you cut yourself off from these opportunities, and it is all on you again. Is it a mission impossible, or do you think de-centralised platforms like Mastodon and Bandcamp can heal us from the toxic impact capitalism has on culture? Maybe at some point?

Théophile: I think there are many different ways to get the music around. If you cut yourself off from everything, it becomes impossible, and you might as well just make music at home, and for yourself. But perhaps if each band decided to boycott just some of these things according to their preferences, and beliefs (a streaming platform, a social network etc.), it would break their monopoly. It would at least take away some of their power, putting them in competition with more independent platforms that offer fairer remuneration models. It's probably not enough, but it's something that any band can do at their level to deprive each of the big platforms of a share of their audience.

Anne: Enough about the dark stuff. I think it was at last year's ArcTanGent when I last saw you live on stage. Are you also part of the line-up in 2023? Any other festival gigs this year? I also heard some rumours about a new album coming up. Are they true?

"Yes! are working on a new album!"

Théophile: 2023 will be a bit special for us. It's a break year—We'd like to concentrate on writing our second album, so we'd rather put the gigs on hold. We won't be releasing any new tracks or EPs until then. It will be good if we write and record a nice album. We have a big blank page in front of us—We don't know at all what the album will be about. We just wanted to get through the first one with the live shows and not think about the future until we've reached the wall. Now it's time for us to close the studio door and get back to work. We'll be back on the road when the time comes to defend the second album live.

We're already looking forward to it, and I hope we'll have the opportunity to return to ArcTanGent at that time.

Anne: Thank you for this eye-opening and very sympathetic interview! It really made me think!

Théophile: Thank you! Thank you for your time and passion and for raising such exciting issues!

Please enjoy BRUIT ≤'s newest EP! They released "Apologie du temps perdu, Vol. 1" on January 27th 2023 – so it is completely fresh material.

Don't forget to buy their records!